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cutting inside

a chalice

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T.allan Jones25/05/2008 22:22:00
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I am a very new turner and I've turned a goblet and a small pot out of an apple tree recently cut down. The wood is quite green and I find it easy to cut the outside and find it awkward to scrape or cut the inside. Is there a particular way? should I shape the outside first or the inside? If i do the outside shape and then the inside while the wood is mounted on a small screw chuck which is quite secure, I'm getting a lot of vibration or grabbing and the same the other way. My tools are quite sharp. I've used a scraper on one and a bowl gouge on the other to find the difference but both have the same problem. Can any one give me advice on this matter?
Ralph Harvey25/05/2008 23:22:00
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Alan If it was me i would turn the inside of the goblet bowl first, use a small bowl gouge first, taking small cuts in the centre. then working from the centre to the outer edge, and then working inward to the depth.

Once the inside is "roughed out" use your scraper to neaten up the shape, remember to keep a downward angle to cut neatly, and then turn the outer shape to match, you will need to be carefull with the cuts taking light cuts so as to not snag the timber and pull it off the screw.

Take your time and dont make the stem too long, you will also need to watch your wall thickness as the wood may crack if it is left too thick

It is quite a dificult thing to turn endgrain when you are a newcomer to turning, but with care it can be done. This is a brief explanation to follow but there are full plans to follow in variouse books. you could look in your local library.

Its something i havn't turned for a while, I may have a go at one myself if i can find the right piece of wood

Good luck

Ralph

Clive Phillips26/05/2008 14:14:00
22 forum posts

Hi Allan,

Like yourself I have recently taken up woodturning properly and having turned the customary light pulls, (which my daughter says why have we got 20+ light pulls when we only have one bathroom light), I have also just tried to turn a goblet in Yew, Like ralph says end grain turning is very hard and in fact my piece went off centre so many times that I gave up and put it to one side. I have just gone back to it and put a wood drill bit down the middle followed by larger forstner bits to open up the middle and take out the waste, probably not the right thing to do but playing and trying is what I think it is all about. I tried a bowl gouge but I think I need a lot more practice so I used a skew chisel, Perhaps Ralph could advise us both on whether this is right or not. I suppose at the end of the day we are trying to get to a bowl shape rather than a flat bottom. In the Novemeber 2007 edition of WoodTurning (page 36 - 39) shows the turning of a goblet with captive rings (which I know is a bit ambitious for a novice), it also shows a "fixed angle ring tool" which the author Len Grantham always uses for hollowing out, but so far I have not been able to locate one, unless anyone knows where to buy one.

Anyway best of luck with the turning.

 Regards

 Clive

T.allan Jones26/05/2008 18:33:00
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Hi Clive yes I have the same amount of bottle stoppers and I don't drink. I think I may also try a drill to take the middle bit out. after all its the results we are after.I do try to see what all of the tools I have can do and I find the best tools are the 3/8 bowl gouge, the parting tool and two skews of small 1/2inch and 1 inch. I really like to use the gouge on the small pieces because if it is sharp enough it does as good as the skew.But that is my humble opinion.
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Oddjob27/05/2008 10:28:00
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Gentlemen

I too am a comparative newcomer to turning but have learned to turn the inside of a goblet or bowl quite well - I think.

The technique described by Ralph is, I find, the best for goblets or other end grain working.  I like my gouge to have a short bevel for this - about 60 degrees.  Remember that, as you pull the gouge from centre towards the goblet rim, you should also swing it from left to right in a smoothe arc.  There is nothing wrong in using a scraper for end grain removal if that is what you feel comfortable with.  I don't see how you can possibly be successful with a skew unlesss you are just using a curved one as a scraper.  In which case a curved scraper should be used.

There is also nothing wrong in using drills or forstner bits for bulk removal if that is what you feel comfortable with.

I recommend reading books and watching videos by experts to learn the techniques but you will find they all have their favourite methods.  There are a few basic rules that all turners follow (bevel rubbing, cut with grain, scrapers at trailing angle etc.) but they all have different techniques.  Try them all and settle with what suits you best.

Richard

T.allan Jones27/05/2008 18:33:00
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Thanks for that oddjob. I've just cut a bowl about 5"s wide solely using a scraper as an exercise and as previously stated by others the small cuts are most successful. ``i did have one or two shocks wih the scraper grabbing but I believe this was due to my concentration more than lack of skill. lkept the bowl mounted on the head and tailstock and left the centre in, working around the pin as it were, in the middle still attached to the tail stock.```so far this has been successful. I'm about to tidy it up know so `I'll let you know how I get on soon. Thanks for the help from all of you involved in this thread.
Ralph Harvey27/05/2008 19:55:00
3274 forum posts
315 photos
2 articles

Allan

Sorry not to get back to you sooner but Richard is right in his explanation of how to use the tools corectly. and like him i can not see a real use for the skew to turn out the inside of the Goblet/bowl unless it is as a scraper.

If you are happy with a scraper to remove the waste from the inside of a bowl that is fine and as you state the tailstock will steady the work, but if you can manage to master the bowl gouge you will find the removal of waste will be more efficient and the finishing cuts will give you a far superior end piece of work.

Sadly you might find it dificult to find text dedicated to how to use the tool, rather it is often a small note as a perticular piece is turned. Practice with the tools and your end result will get better.

You say you are about to "tidy it up" what process are you going to use to do this, be carefull not to oversand the piece as heat generated may cause small shakes to form, work through the grits and slow the lathe to sand your work.

Ralph

George Arnold27/05/2008 20:25:00
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 Clive

 Robert Sorbey do ring tools  in their catalogue, WWW.robert-sorby.co.uk. I certainly would not use a skew for hollowing out,  a scraper is one of the best tools inside solong as you keep it sharp with a good bur and use it in a trailing mode. Sorby's make a lot of hollowing tool of the scraper type  with inter changeable tips  the " Multi Tip Shear Scraper. It will depend how deep the bowl is with a standard ground bowl gouge how succesful you will be, As Oddjob says you need a different angle on the gouge.

 If you look at Peter Child catalogue they do a Supertip system which has different tips fitted to one handle this includes what they discribe as a loop tool very similar to a ring tool, and another tip that is specialy ground for hollowing , if you want to do any deep hollowing the chisel length needs to be for 7in it's recomended to be 24in long.

www.Peterchild.co.uk

George

Ralph Harvey27/05/2008 20:35:00
3274 forum posts
315 photos
2 articles

George

They are great tools in the hands of the confident turner but they are a but too advanced for the novice which i think allan might be ? i think for a bowl or goblet a gouge and scraper are probably the better options at the present.

Maybe athread on how to use the tools for the beginner would be an ideal opertunity to help beginers as it seems to be a point that is often bought up ?

Ralph

T.allan Jones27/05/2008 20:48:00
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http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg65/invigilator/IMG_0058-1.jpg

this is the bowl being kept by the centre and scraped out
T.allan Jones27/05/2008 20:56:00
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82 forum posts
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http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg65/invigilator/IMG_0060-1.jpg

and this is the finished product.I've neglected the base it is not totally flat. I have rubbed ithe bowl with beeswax. As you can see i have removed the centre piece on completion of the inside leaving just a little stubble on the centre base. I had to sand the outside quite heavily because I felt any further use of the tools may have injured the piece and my pride as I had spent a considrerable time on it. In all I used 3/4 goge to round the wood,a scraper and a parting tool for the inside to see the effects. I used a 3/8 bowl gouge and a skew chisel to smooth the outside and loads of sandpaper finishing of with the beeswax.
Ralph Harvey27/05/2008 21:26:00
3274 forum posts
315 photos
2 articles

Allan

It is a very good first go at turning a bowl. i am sure you are very pleased with it !

With a bit of practice and learning how to use the tools more effectivlly and you will be able to achieve much more.

My suggestion if you dont mind me saying.

Read all the books and magazines you can, they will give you an idea of what you are aiming at.

Join a woodturning club locally if you can, this should give you contact with like minded turners who can advise you on how to turn better.

Ask questions, remember there is no daft questions just because someone else knows the answer, after all they learnt it from somewhere.

Be open minded if someone is constructivelly critical of your work now it is to help you. My first piece is upstairs hidden away in a drawer. it reminds me of what i have learnt.

Good luck,

Ralph

T.allan Jones27/05/2008 22:31:00
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Yes Ralph I'm very pleased and so is the wife she's clained it.I'm considered a bookworm at the best of times and as for the practice, well I've got stuff I won't show but it has taught me a thing or two.There dosn't seem to be a local club at hand in my area they are further away than I can manage. I will continue to pester whoever in the process. So thanks Ralph and everybody else for whatever you can offer me in the way of knowledge.
Ralph Harvey27/05/2008 23:37:00
3274 forum posts
315 photos
2 articles

Allan

In my oppinion the reason a site like this works is because people are here to help others at any stage whether newcomers or the seasoned woodworker.

If you have any questions i am sure that there will be someone here to help.

Good luck and enjoy.

Ralph

T.allan Jones28/05/2008 19:30:00
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Hello everybody.` i have chastised myself no end and I must state, that in my ignorance or carelessness i called a parting tool a scraper. I used a parting tool and not a scraper.My apologises I did not mean to confuse

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