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The Safest Saw in the World

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Woodworker26/04/2008 00:45:00
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Oddjob, you're right. Though I think this thread is the busier one now.
Robbie26/04/2008 07:56:00
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Olly

What difference does a full length rip fence have over a short one in terms of safety?

Ben

How good is the TS200, does it have any weakness?

Woodworker26/04/2008 10:49:00
1745 forum posts
1 photos
74 articles
Robbie,

Being able to adjust the rip fence back and forth allows you to set it so that material is free of the fence as soon as it's cut, it therefore won't bind and kick back. I usually set mine about 10mm past the cutting zone.

The TS200 is a great saw for the money. There are some attention to detail issues with it such as the cross cut fence locking mechanism could do with a bit more thought. The wheel base is handy but I find my foot pedal never locks in place for long, not a major issue, but an irritation all the same. The sliding carriage is nice and not seen on a saw with this price tag before.

The fundamentals of of the TS200 are great and most of the niggles can be sorted out with a bit of time and thought.
Olly Parry-Jones26/04/2008 12:00:00
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Thanks Ben. I really do like the look of the TS200. If only I had the space...

I didn't realise you could slide the fence back on this saw though. It still doesn't explain why you probably can't do it on any of their larger saws though.

When setting the fence, I think it's supposed to be in line with the point at which the highest point of the timber is in conact with the blade...? I know what it is, it's just not easy to explain with only words!

I always assume that a full-length fence is safe with sheet materials, since there aren't the same kind of stresses involved as with solid timber. Few people disagree though.

We see full-length fences feature heavily on cheaper saws and I think the "locking feature" at both ends give some kind of assurance to anyone who's new to this kind of thing and sadly believes that a £200 table saw will provide good value for money.

Mike, did I read that right - home-made table saw?!? I've heard of router table and have even come across the odd bandsaw - but I look forward to seeing photo's of this!!

Mike Garnham26/04/2008 17:26:00
4114 forum posts
1 photos

Ben, Ollie........

firstly I would remind you that the rules of the HSE only apply if you employ anyone......hence I am exempt!!! Bear that in mind when you have a look at these:

/sites/5/images/member_albums/6440/Table_Saw_2.jpg


/sites/5/images/member_albums/6440/Table_Saw_1.jpg


The second image shows the Skil saw mounted on the ply base, and displays prominently the wedge that holds the switch in the on position.

The offcuts that fly out of the set-up usually embed themselves in the wall very close to my clamps. I have of course removed the riving knife as it is nothing but a damn nuisance: always in the way.

I have a remotely switched socket, so I turn this on by using the pull cord hanging from the ceiling.

How are you feeling Ollie?

You will be pleased to know that I no longer use this for ripping......a good wide blade with course teeth in my bandsaw has made the whole process a bit safer. Actually, the real reason is that I couldn't really control the dust very well with the table saw.

Ironic really, that this posting is under the title "The Safest Saw in the World" !!!!!!!!

Mike

Mike Garnham26/04/2008 17:27:00
4114 forum posts
1 photos
PS      Whilst I no longer use this set-up for ripping, it is often in use for rebating or grooving.......as today when I have made 5 drawers (Pics later).
Robbie26/04/2008 17:54:00
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129 forum posts
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That is impressively unsafe!
Olly Parry-Jones26/04/2008 18:06:00
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2776 forum posts
636 photos
Well Mike, if I'd have known you were simply gonna invert a skil saw and fix it to a sheet of ply, I could've advised you to have a look at one of those stands that Triton do (someone else just posted one in a photo of their workshop - they come with guarding and extraction too! )


I was expecting something much bigger, honestly, Mike - like an 18" belt-driven blade with a motor several times bigger than my own head! That's the kind of thing I've seen a Polish woodworker do in the past. I'll see if I can find that link somewhere...

I've actually been thinking about doing something quite similar myself for a long time. I also use my bandsaw to do all my ripping but can't find the space for a decent table saw. In truth though, I'd probably have to buy a larger circular saw anyway. If I could only rip 2" thick, I may as well stick with the bandsaw.

Anyone come across the EZ Smart system?

I don't actually have a problem with rebating using one of these saws, as long as you don't tie back the guard or anything... It's a good way to cut rebates when you're on site working with large-section timbers. Much quicker, and tidier, than doing it with a router. Probably a lot quieter too. As for grooving, if you have access for a router table (and I know you do, Mike!), I really think that it's your best option.

I find that circular saws, quite like routers, can become incredibley versitle tools to have in a small workshop - with the right armoury of jigs. As well as ripping and cutting down sheet materials, you can of course cross-cut, mitre and cut compound angles, with the right jig. I was thinking of how to devise something I could use to quickly rip a straight edge on waney-edge timber... I have a sheet-cutting jig I made recently , but I'd like something a little different for this. Dust extraction can be quite awful with these saws though, I do agree with you there.

Your pull-cord idea sounds quite handy, actually, Mike! I used the MDF router table we have at college for the first time this week and to switch the router on you actually have to flip the router switch! No NVR, so I really didn't like doing this! It's a 110v tool you see, and I know that 110v NVR switches are that much more expensive than even the dearest 230v versions.

How am I feeling today? I managed to to lose a good three-hours in the 'shop today trying to get the tables perfectly aligned on my planer-thicknesser. Yep, they've moved again! I came inside to find Chelsea somehow got a 2-1 earlier today, but I've enjoyed seeing and reading about your ideas Mike, as dangerous as they may be!

Mike Garnham26/04/2008 19:14:00
4114 forum posts
1 photos

Ollie,

Whilst I have the space to actually stand a decent table saw in the middle of my workshop, I value floor space far more highly. No more machinery in this shed!!I've lived without a table saw for 25 years, so that will have to wait for the day we move and I get a bigger workshop. My ideal circular saw would have a blade about 3 feet in diameter, and be powered by a water-wheel in an old mill.

My belt-sander would be half the size of Texas, with a power take off from the same main shaft as the saw. You could also have a reciprocating saw and powered hammer for metal-working......all running quietly without electricity. Paradise! 

As for your jig for cutting waney edge boards.......surely you just clamp a straight edge to the board and run the hand-held circular saw along that?

Mike 

Olly Parry-Jones27/04/2008 11:23:00
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2776 forum posts
636 photos

I don't know Mike, I reckon that circular saw would still whistle through the air... But it's a nice dream, all the same. Very "Green", too! Even there are problems with rising sea levels and the melting ice caps etc., why can't we use it to our advantage?? I'm sure we could  find enough woodworkers to make  enough wooden wheels to power the country...!

I agree with you on the straight edge jig, although I still tend to work to a straight line on the bandsaw. Trouble is, with thicknesser timber and a 1/2" blade, it takes a lot longer and the cut is rarely straight enough off the saw alone.

Something like a compact radial arm saw would be idea though... You put the timber in place, run the saw down the length and the cut is done. Yeah, clamping a straight-edge on is simple enough for the time being though.

Andy King27/04/2008 17:04:00
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170 forum posts
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19 articles

hi Olly,

to follow on from Ben's post, I'm pretty sure all of the Record fences have the same ability to be pulled back for ripping timber.

I tested the TS200 that Ben has (it is a great saw for the price, if I didn't have my Kity 419, I'd get one)

Just finished writing up a test on the Record TS315 panel saw with scoring facility and this has the same fence design. Record are usually pretty good at getting this sort of thing right.

I saw a prototype of the TS200 about two years back and it took another 18 months before they were happy and it met all the CE regs. It cost Record a huge sum of money to get the saw to the criteria, but they do it for every tool they sell. I've seen the CE documentation on that saw alone and it is about the size of a telephone directory!

There are some saws imported into the uk without the CE certification, and to be honest, I don't know how they can do it, i'm pretty sure its illegal to sell machinery without this certification?

cheers,

Andy

Doug27/04/2008 17:32:00
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3415 forum posts
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Andy. 

I`m wondering if you buy the tool from another country that isn`t covered by CE then it`s sent to you,   have any rules been broken.

I have a few battery powered tools that i bought from the US that don`t carry the CE mark, but as far as i know i`ve done nothing illegal?

I`ve been told you can`t use a tool on an inspected site (covered by H&S) that doesn`t have the CE mark. Also your liability insurance may be void, with regard to employees using such tools.

Baz

Olly Parry-Jones27/04/2008 17:32:00
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2776 forum posts
636 photos

Thanks Andy, that's certainly reassuring. I worked for a guy a couple of years ago, while I was previously still at college, and the fence on that saw was full-length. I didn't honestly look to see if it was adjustable and I'd be surprised if my ex-employer would ever have taken any notice of it!

That probably explains why we were struggling o rip a load of oak one afternoon...

Which kind of manufacturers are importing illegal uncertified saws? I assume you're only talking about the cheap Chinese stuff here...?? 

Andy King27/04/2008 18:45:00
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170 forum posts
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Hi Baz, If you do that yourself, i think you are fine, but if a company here imports and then sells stuff that doesn't have CE regs, that, i'm pretty sure, is a problem. Olly, the ones i'm referring to are quite well thought of, and are based on the Delta Unisaw in the USA. Most people who buy them want to be 'Norm' as these have the option of a long arbor for dado blades. The saws come from Taiwan as far as i'm aware. I' spoke with a guy I know at HSE regarding the dado/arbor, to try and get a definitive answer, and also asked about the CE regulation. He told me that all saws have to be CE regulated, and that although small tools or stuff that isn't deemed overly dangerous can be self CE regged, saws, and other equally dangerous machines have to be done independently. He said that they would be very interested in looking at companies that sell non compliant tools, but would need an official complaint to do so. He also said although these saws are likely to be well made and do their jobs properly, should an accident occur that needs a HSE investigation, the importer would be liable for a massive fine. I mentioned this on a similar thread over on UKW a year or so back, and one of the mods emailed the company to see if they had any saws that were CE regged and they replied that they were going through the process at the time. Whether they are now, I don't know. I'll not mention the company by name, but they sell saws that sound remarkably like King Arthurs sword...
Olly Parry-Jones28/04/2008 09:52:00
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Don't worry Andy, I know the ones you mean. I can also think of at least three members of UKW who own this particular saw as well!

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